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Former featured articleSan Francisco is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed.
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Current status: Former featured article

Question about European arrival

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There seem to be two dates in conflict in the article.

One statement is: "...Spanish exploration party arrived on November 2, 1769, the first documented European visit to San Francisco Bay.'

Another is: "The mission received its name in 1776, when it was founded by the Spanish under the leadership of Padre Francisco Palóu." / "On June 29, 1776, settlers from New Spain established the Presidio of San Francisco at the Golden Gate, and the Mission San Francisco de Asís a few miles away, both named for Francis of Assisi."

Spanish must first have arrived in 1776 or earlier to have built "The Mission Dolores adobe chapel, constructed in 1776" Mission San Francisco de Asís?

Can anyone clarify?

I visited recently but don't live in the US. I am researching for something I am writing and noticed this difference. Pakoire (talk) 19:52, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The 1769 date refers to the first European exploration of the area - the Portolá expedition - while the 1776 date refers to the settlement of the area. Two different things. Cristiano Tomás (talk) 14:00, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Cristiano Tomás thanks, yes. I think now I look at it again that I was being dyslexic with the numbers actually. It does make sense! Pakoire (talk) 02:00, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
three separate settlements, in separate places:
  • military
  • civil
  • religious
69.181.17.113 (talk) 19:11, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Image proposal

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Image 1
Image 2
Image 2 alt. 1
Image 2 alt. 2
Image 3
Image 4

Hello, I've searched for suitable images for the infobox of this article and have found several options I'd like to propose for consideration:

I believe these options could enhance the visual appeal and contribute to the encyclopedic value of the article's infobox. Tobiasi0 (talk) 11:42, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'd call this proposal unopposed and insert the images on April 28. –Tobias (talk) 11:57, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Tobiasi0 I've added the images to this comment as previews, hope that was OK. '''[[User:CanonNi]]''' (talk|contribs) 11:48, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
CanonNi Sure thank you, I just have to change the Alcatraz picture Tobiasi0 (talk) 11:53, 7 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
we've discussed spamming images in the lead here before please see archive.Moxy🍁 21:36, 28 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I did, and the only and first reason I found against a collage was copyrighted material or the incomplete representation of the city showing single buildings, which is not the case here, since I don't have those specific images in my proposal. Additionally, the inclusion of 3 to 4 images in the infobox is anything but 'spam'. –Tobias (talk) 03:59, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Last thing we want is the scrolling nightmare and teeny mini images like at New York City. Most readers only scroll one time that doesn't even get you halfway through the info box so really people only see the first paragraph of the New York article . 15 images in the lead is a good way to deter readership. Moxy🍁 04:27, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Moxy like I said, we are talking about 3 to 4 images, not 15. I don't like the infobox images of New York City either. –Tobias (talk) 04:31, 29 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Tobias only suggested adding 4 images max. That is hardly spamming. Please don't hyperbolize the situation --haha169 (talk) 04:44, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Nothing short of a full WP:RFC will change the single photo to anything else. Longstanding consensus is against two or more images. San Francisco page editors are generally not interested in anything else but the one photo. There is no requirement and definitely no need to make every city page fit the exact same layout. Binksternet (talk) 05:00, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
From the perspective of an uninvolved outsider, I much prefer what LivinAWestLife did to the current infobox with two images. The current view of the skyline captures more, but it comes at the expense of everything in the distant background (i.e. the city itself) being conspicuously blurry. The image WestLife uses captures the downtown in much better detail (and they also arguably use a better shot of the Golden Gate Bridge). It's also patently ridiculous that their change to a suitable single image afterward was called "vandalism" in the edit summary. At worst this would be disruptive editing. I would be happy to participate in an RfC, but I'd advise against against holding one for a bit since this is in the spotlight on Reddit right now, with some comments actively suggesting WP:CANVASSing. TheTechnician27 (Talk page) 06:42, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As the editor in question, I agree with all of your points but I would like to expand on that as well. From the article's history a version of the page with a photo montage was up for a few months in 2024 before Binksternet changed it back. That at least partly indicates most readers found it a worthwhile improvement.
I can see that the consensus was established when much discussion was made over this issue a decade ago, but in the past 5 years whenever the issue has come up it has always been a few editors, particularly Binksternet and Kurykh, who have been quick to shut down any discussion, falling back on said "longstanding consensus". Consensus can certainly change, and in fact I see more editors trying to create new infoboxes than the number rejecting them.
Either way, the current image is not the best photo to represent San Francisco, mainly because the skyline is hardly visible behind the Golden Gate bridge. Both are essential features of the city, so I would concur with you that at minimum we could feature just those 2 images and leave it at that, as capturing both adequately in a single frame would be hard.
Regarding the infobox being long: up to 5 or 6 images would not change that if the current one was already deemed long. Other major US cities have longer infoboxes that extend well into the body of the article (e.g. Miami, Chicago) but a request to have only a single image in those articles have never been seriously raised. LivinAWestLife (talk) 06:58, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That's fine, but Moxy's reply was needlessly sarcastic and biting (WP:BITE) and I was just reminding them. --haha169 (talk) 07:06, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
From the article's history I can see that a version of the page with a photo montage was up for a few months in 2024 before you changed it back. That at least partly indicates most readers found it a worthwhile improvement.
I can see that the consensus was established when much discussion was made over this issue a decade ago, but in the past 5 years whenever the issue has come up it has always been a few editors, particularly you and Kurykh, who have been quick to shut down any discussion, falling back on said "longstanding consensus". Consensus can certainly change, especially as its been many years since this was really discussed at length, and in fact I see more editors trying to create new infoboxes than the number rejecting them. Literally the only pushback I see for nearly a decade is from you, Kurykh, and Moxy. Three editors is not what I'd call sufficient to establish a consensus; in this thread alone there are more people supporting a photo montage.
It also just makes me curious exactly why some people are so against this when no other city has this seen so much controversy. LivinAWestLife (talk) 10:05, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This certainly sounds like whatever consensus was formerly here is now in question, and this issue needs to be discussed afresh to re-established a consensus opinion, one way or the other. — The Anome (talk) 11:20, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"The City" in reference to downtown alone

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An edit in 2001 added a line that today appears as, "for residents of San Francisco living in the more suburban parts of the city, 'the City' generally refers to the more densely populated downtown areas around Market Street." I can find nothing in the cited sources to support this, nor could I find even an unreliable confirmation via a cursory Google search. @Member: What is the origin of this assertion? Have you got a source? Ibadibam (talk) 18:57, 29 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In absence of a source, I have removed this passage from the article. Ibadibam (talk) 21:40, 3 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Concur with your removal of that inaccurate text. Thanks for taking care of that! --Coolcaesar (talk) 00:13, 4 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ellis Sox (1909-1989), Director (1952-1970) , San Francisco Department of Public Health

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how to start article:?

Ellis Sox (1909-1989), Director (1952-1970) , San Francisco Department of Public Health

37 citations at Talk:San_Francisco_Department_of_Public_Health#"Doctor_Sox"_"San_Francisco"_"Director_of_Public_Health"

69.181.17.113 (talk) 19:21, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

free health care, hippies, drugs, diseases, other ... 69.181.17.113 (talk) 19:27, 23 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Request for comment: Images in infobox

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There has been a discussion above regarding whether more than a single image is required in the infobox. Some commenters have referred to a "longstanding consensus" against multiple images, but I see little evidence that that consensus still holds in the discussion above, other than by bold assertion.

I invite comments regarding the number of images that should be in the infobox, from both involved an uninvolved editors.

  • Option 0: no image
  • Option 1: only one image
  • Option 2: two images
  • Option 3: three or more images

Note that this is about the number of images, not the specific images to be chosen, since the number of images seems to be the primary point of contention.

I will ping all participants in the discussion above, but please note this is an attempt to establish consensus, not to push any particular point of view, and all editors are welcome to contribute. I hold no position as to the favoured option, and thus won't express my opinion.

Note also that this is a request for comment, not a WP:VOTE; please express a rationale for your position on this, rather than just chiming in. Non-specific references to "the archives" or that this "has been discussed many times" are not sufficient; please re-state your argument here.

— The Anome (talk) 11:26, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Pinging participants: @Tobias, Tobiasi0, CanonNi, Moxy, Haha169, Binksternet, LivinAWestLife, and TheTechnician27: — The Anome (talk) 11:31, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment There seems to be a substantial precedent of articles on major cities having several images in their infobox (Munich, Manchester, Boston, Chicago, London, Paris, Berlin, etc., etc. Is there one that doesn't apart from San Francisco?). The same applies to other "large" subjects, e.g. WW2, which has a well-discussed montage. This seems reasonable as any large place/subject is going to have several pictures that can represent it, with just one being insufficient. If the argument is that all those other articles should not have multiple images, then that goes against the clear consensus (actions speak louder than words) that they are appropriate. Reading the above, I find it hard to find any reasonable (to me) argument against multiple images. ThoughtIdRetired TIR 12:26, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Option 3 imho. I don't need 10 images either, but three or four wouldn’t do any harm as far as I’m concerned. –Tobias (talk) 13:34, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Option 3 for consistency with other major cities Dan Wang (talk) 14:48, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Option 3 without a doubt - SF's infobox should utilize the precedent for infobox montages found across city articles and language editions of wikipedia. Cristiano Tomás (talk) 14:54, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Option 3: While I acknowledge that major cities typically do have a collage-style format, namely that all 35 of the most populous US cities except #17 San Francisco have such a format, I still think it needs to be justified on a per-article basis by giving examples of six distinct landmarks (a single shot of the skyline at the top plus six landmarks below that in a 3x2 grid appears to be the unwritten standard) which can reasonably represent the city in the infobox (i.e., we shouldn't try to shoehorn in the collage if we can't first find good, highly recognizable landmarks). Therefore, I'll try to do that here. Presently with LivinAWestLife's version, we have the Financial District for the skyline and the Golden Gate Bridge for one landmark, which is a start. An obvious next choice for a landmark is Alcatraz Island. After that, I think another obvious choice is Chinatown, being the oldest in North America and arguably one of SF's most recognizable landmarks. From there, Golden Gate Park and the Palace of Fine Arts are, I think, two robust picks. For the final landmark, I was initially going to suggest Fisherman's Wharf or the painted ladies, but from an outsider's perspective, both of these seem kind of shallow as a representation of SF. I'm therefore thinking that a possible good sixth landmark is the Ferry Building. I think any collage basically has to include the Financial District, the Golden Gate Bridge, Alcatraz, and Chinatown, and I think that Golden Gate Park and the Palace of Fine Arts are very strong contenders, but I think that last slot is basically anyone's game. TheTechnician27 (Talk page) 15:21, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Option 1 not a kids picture book - having 10 to 15 files (because of maps and flags etc) with 8 tiny images for 4 paragraphs of information is simply crazy and a scrolling nightmare that deters readers from reading on - especially those with mobility problem Data. Best look academic not juvenile. MOS:ACCIM - in my view if the city has a world-renowned landmark there should only be the one.... San Francisco (Golden Gate bridge)... Sydney (opera House)..... Paris (Eiffel tower).... London (tower bridge) etc Simply a waste of time for content editors to have to deal with flyby spaming.Moxy🍁 15:30, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Moxy: Having read it, I don't see how the draft research page you linked to corresponds with a purported readership decline due to a collage. On the mobile app, the infobox is completely collapsed by default, making this basically moot. And on desktop and browser mobile – even though this absolutely is not the intention of using more than one image – having more visual information to go off of other than "here's some skyscrapers" gets me more immediately engaged with the article. I don't think we need to be 8 years old to acknowledge that the human brain is deeply attuned to visual stimuli and that, as LivinAWestLife points out below, having several major landmarks gives a more memorable visual overview of the city than just "skyline and maybe a landmark in that skyline shot". The fact for example that you specified the Tower Bridge for London instead of Big Ben/the Palace of Westminster (arguably its most iconic landmark globally) speaks to the fact that cities generally won't have just one defining landmark to represent them. Moreover, it ignores the fact that the skyline still needs to be shown, which doesn't necessarily include the most popular landmark (e.g., as you noted, the Sydney Opera House; capturing that, the Harbour Bridge, and the skyline would be technically possible but would look terrible). Can you elaborate on "driveby spamming"? I think as long as talk page consensus needs to be established for each image (and anything else can be reverted with prejudice), there's no real harm. TheTechnician27 (Talk page) 16:43, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
TheTechnician27@ it's not collapsed in mobile versions it appears after the first paragraph of the lead for everyone.... Hopefully on the right side sandwiching text as per the norm. Perhaps decline is the wrong word..... should be saying they will leave before they reach prose text (the meat and bones of why we are here - spread knowledge). As seen at "Scroll actions" we see that most only scroll a few times at best.... then venture off somewhere else to get the information they're looking for. There is also the accessibility issue of having little mini images well below the recommended size for an image. It also is a minor violation of our images MOS.... Images should be beside relevant text discussing them not just popped in there for decoration. As for a drive-by editing..... Article stewards are constantly having to correct, amend revert additions of sub part images over having one high quality stable image. Moxy🍁 16:58, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Moxy: I'm not familiar with the specific MOS guideline you're citing, but the ones in the infobox clearly have no issue at all with appropriate captioning – namely an identification of the landmark followed by a wikilink to the relevant article. It seems to conform perfectly well to MOS:CAPTION to me. As for calling the current image "high quality stable", I'd beg to disagree, both because 1) editors are constantly trying to change it 2) due to how bad a representation of San Francisco it is, making it neither "stable" nor, arguably, "high-quality". Again, this isn't for the sake of decoration: this is for the sake of actually giving an overview of the city. I said this below as well, but the current impression I get of San Francisco from that photo is "a red bridge with some indistinct, grey blobs in the distance". TheTechnician27 (Talk page) 20:46, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Option 2 I not believe the current image from the Marin Headlands sufficiently captures the essence of the city by itself, but it imo does correctly identify the two elements that need to be shown more clearly: the Golden Gate Bridge and the Skyline. Currently, in an attempt to only have a single image, neither clearly represented (the skyline in particular is blurry, distant, and small). --haha169 (talk) 16:10, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Option 3 or Option 2 - While I am sympathetic to the argument that too many images can clutter up the beginning of an article, this is hardly an issue anyone reports for most city articles with collages of reasonable length. Generally there have been none or very few attempts to revert back to a single image once an image collage has been firmly established.
As some have mentioned there is a near universal precedent for major world cities to have several images in the infobox, and while there is no hard rule for such a precedent or a guideline for universal consistency, many will find the omission in this article odd. The purpose of these images is to showcase different aspects of the city by displaying some of its most notable landmarks, with the first image generally being a view of the city's skyline. For SF, most agree the Golden Gate Bridge should be featured in the image(s) somewhere. However there isn't a single picture that can do both the skyline and the bridge justice - a minimum of two images, one for each, would address this. Major cities are large and multi-faceted, and hence it is unreasonable to suggest that a single image could represent an entire city - the main reason why every other city article has multiple images.
Reasonable articles for major cities typically have between 4-7 images - it takes a minuscule fraction of a second to scroll past the additional photos should one wish to do so on a phone, laptop, or desktop. If the reader wants to scroll towards the body of the article, the extra length of the infobox does not push the beginning of the "Etymology" section any further down from its current position.
Lastly I will mention that some people (such as myself) may find the images useful for finding, identifying, or learning about a city's most notable landmarks, instead of having to scroll towards the tourism or cultural sections of the article. LivinAWestLife (talk) 16:21, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment – I have created a mock-up seven-image collage in my sandbox to showcase what one could potentially look like. It includes the Financial District, the Golden Gate Bridge, Alcatraz Island, Chinatown, Golden Gate Park, the Palace of Fine Arts, and a cable car on Hyde Street. I'm not completely satisfied with the picture of Golden Gate Park itself, but I think the collage represents a strong, cohesive visualization of San Francisco. TheTechnician27 (Talk page) 17:21, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I lived on Alameda Island in San Francisco Bay and worked in SanFrancisco. Alcatraz is a tourist destination, not a visual landmark. The Golden Gate Bridge is a visual landmark (better viewed from the Marin headland since this is for the San Francisco article). Coit Tower is impressive at night. Golden Gate Park. But only one image I've seen is emblematic for San Francisco—one of The City and bridge from Marin. The other thirty-four major cities lack such a singularly image (not even St. Louis—the top image in the collage shows one building and the arch). Consistency across very different major city articles is, to me, less important than the story told, economically, by one image. That's what an image does. A striking image draws the viewer into the article—where the story is fleshed out. On mobile devices, some of the busier images are so small that vision plays little part. Perhaps consistency is an aid to policing format, lest another infobox war erupts. I recognize this is opinion. And a judgement—required for every particle in Wikipedia. There is a constant tension between rules and judgement. So we have policies to leave room for judgement. — Neonorange (talk to Phil) (he, they) 18:21, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Neonorange: Discussing whether Alcatraz Island is technically inside of San Francisco feels like a very weak argument to me, bordering on pedantry. Even if it's a complete tourist trap, Alcatraz functions as one of the most recognizable landmarks around San Francisco (I don't understand the objection that it's "not a visual landmark" when it's a visually prominent part of the Bay and when I can say for certain as an outsider that it's one of the first things someone thinks of as a landmark there). Yes, Alcatraz is administered federally by the National Park Service. But then I'd caution you that there's another famous small island off the coast of another famous large city which is in a similar predicament: Liberty Island is not part of New York City. Instead, it's a pseudo-exclave of NYC which is actually owned by the US federal government and managed by – again – the National Park Service. But I think if you tried to protest that an image of the Statue of Liberty shouldn't be included in the NYC collage because it's "not part of New York City", you'd get some really weird looks. TheTechnician27 (Talk page) 21:22, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Option 1 — In the just previous discussion on this talk page, Image one is not sharp. All the Image two versions show Marin County, on the other side of the bay, not San Francisco at all. Image three is Alcatraz Island and prison—it's not part of 'The City'. Image four is a beautiful image of the city business district at night, but only the TransAmerican Pyramid is emblematic. One image of the Golden Gate Bridge and San Francisco seen from the Marin County headland that is sharp and with appropriate focal length for the camera. Option 1 is best introduction to San Francisco. — Neonorange (talk to Phil) (he, they) —
Option 1. Nobody at all is asking for Option 0, so that's a non-starter. Option 1 has been successfully argued for many years now, in the face of multiple drive-by editors seeking to streamline Wikipedia such that every major city article has the same kind of multi-image infobox with a collage/montage/composite/mosaic whatever. The local editors don't care to conform, and have defended this choice since 2008. Relevant discussion threads include Talk:San_Francisco/Archive_5#Composite_image_in_infobox and Talk:San_Francisco/Archive_5#Composite_image_in_infobox (2008), Talk:San_Francisco/Archive_6#Photo_Montage (2010), Talk:San_Francisco/Archive_6#Infobox_montage_revisited (2011), Talk:San_Francisco/Archive_7#Montage, Talk:San_Francisco/Archive_7#Is_there_something_wrong_with_collages?, Talk:San_Francisco/Archive_7#What_is_wrong_with_this?? (2012), Talk:San_Francisco/Archive_7#Bringing_this_up_again! (2013), Talk:San_Francisco/Archive_7#Photomontage (2015), Talk:San_Francisco/Archive_7#New_Picture, Talk:San_Francisco/Archive_8#Lead_Image_Update, Talk:San_Francisco/Archive_8#Montage (2018), Talk:San_Francisco/Archive_8#Montage again, Talk:San_Francisco/Archive_8#Montage_vs_single_blurry_picture (2021), and Talk:San_Francisco/Archive_8#Multiple_image_infobox (2023). The main argument is that the infobox image is reduced in size and prominence for each new image crowded into place. Binksternet (talk) 19:03, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Binksternet: I think "streamlining" could be a weak argument here if and only if it were just made on its own, but 1) it isn't being made on its own, and 2) it absolutely does bolster Option 3's credibility that I can't think of a single major city on Earth besides San Francisco that doesn't have this in the English Wikipedia. There's a reason why this is, and it's not conformism (although arguably the specific 1/2/2/2 variant of the collage is conformism): a single image simply can't adequately give a good overview of a major city. The current image is evidence of this: the bridge is front-and-center (still not ideal because it has to share the space) while the city itself is a murky, poorly defined afterthought. It's just an extremely poor initial representation of the city as "a red bridge with some blobs way off in the distance" (and there's really no good way around this with one image). Moreover, while I acknowledge that frequent editing of a page gives an editor some level of deferential treatment due to a presumed level of expertise, it absolutely does not imply more 'ownership' than anyone "driving by". You dismiss this as a problem with "drive-by editors", yet the only edits I see from you in the past five years are sporadic reversions, most prominently ones that attempt to add more images to the infobox. This includes one where you demonstrably incorrectly refer to what LivinAWestLife did as "vandalism". In fact, according to the page statistics, Cristiano Tomás can claim substantially more authorship than you (third most contributions by character count and has had contributions from 2014–2024) and says "Option 3 without a doubt" – directly contradicting your notion that this is just random editors coming here to pressure this article to conform for the sake of conformity. To be clear, I think standing as a watchdog for an article's quality is both perfectly valid and helpful, but I think it deflates your argument that past involvement correlates to how much an opinion should matter; I think we should judge this RfC's arguments on their standalone merits, not on an ad hominem. For instance, your list of discussion links with zero context provided for any of them feels like a Gish gallop: just as an example, looking at Talk:San_Francisco/Archive_7#New_Picture this link reveals ostensibly no objection to a collage whatsoever. TheTechnician27 (Talk page) 20:11, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Talk page entries with no further discussion, made by editors creating a collage, prove that this idea has not been met with approval by editors who often revert without discussing it. The "Gish gallop" list shows how often the idea is re-introduced with no resulting change in consensus. "Drive-by" editors are ones that don't wish to improve the San Francisco page specifically, but instead swing through once never to return, because their aim is to make city articles conform to a style. Such a style is not required, not by Wikipedia:WikiProject Cities/US Guideline and definitely not by Template:Infobox settlement which suggests a single image of the city's skyline. Binksternet (talk) 20:20, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Binksternet: I think a more logical explanation than a lack of wanting to be involved would be that a small handful of editors basically treat their participation in this article as ownership, deride anyone trying to change the status quo as annoying outsiders, and immediately shut down any discussion regarding a collage. For example, one of the comments from a 2013 discussion you linked reads: "As I wrote, we've been through this before. We [who's "we"?] don't want a montage, period. So just leave the infobox as it is, and find something else to do." This is so actively and needlessly hostile that why on Earth would anyone stick around to discuss it? Some consensus was reached in 2008-ish, and then from there, existing consensus was used as a cudgel for why no discussion is necessary, self-reinforcing the consensus by shutting down actual, merit-based discussion. Again, you called LivinAWestLife's introduction of a reasonable single image "vandalism" – something that directly states that they are here to intentionally try to defeat the project's purpose. The reason I'm calling your comment a Gish gallop is because you threw in literally anything no matter how weak; for example, this one which is old enough for a driver's license in most countries with exactly one participant (you) saying why you don't like the idea of a collage. TheTechnician27 (Talk page) 20:58, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The key comment is a single image simply can't adequately give a good overview of a major city. Different people are going to have different opinions on what are the iconic images of a city. Of the suggestions listed above, I don't see anything about showing the steep hills that you get in the city. I say this not to argue for its inclusion, but to illustrate that there are plenty of potential subjects out there – which makes this city no different from any other of the other cities with several images in their infobox.
Incidentally, as a "drive by" editor, isn't that the point of a Request for Comment: to get opinions from outside the immediate group of editors who cannot reach agreement on the subject? ThoughtIdRetired TIR 21:33, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@ThoughtIdRetired: I definitely agree with you about the steep hills, which I failed to express in my proposal for the six landmarks above. I fixed this in the mock-up I created. This collage features two examples of the steep streets: one in Chinatown, and another on Hyde Street with a cable car. TheTechnician27 (Talk page) 21:41, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There are also those old wooden houses you see in part of San Francisco (presumably survived the 1906 fire-following-earthquake?). I don't know the city well enough to explain where they are, but I am guessing you know it better than me and understand what I am talking about. Also I do not get the resistance (above) to showing places that are tourist destinations. The montages for other cities show these (London, Paris, etc.). Tourism is actually quite a significant part of the economy of major cities, and San Francisco is no exception. I have visited over half the 50 states (plus Washington DC), and in the inevitable small talk as you get to know the business you are visiting, if you ask the question: "what are the major industries here?" tourism is substantially more often than not in the immediate list given. ThoughtIdRetired TIR 22:03, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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